Source Details

{
    "source_type": "extension",
    "content_hash": "b33a425d58102f8501cefff68de6b43b1704b4a0f2fffe6a11b5f29d8e5f00ae",
    "submitted_via": "chrome_extension",
    "extension_version": "1.0.18",
    "original_url": "https:\/\/www.nytimes.com\/2026\/09\/18\/arts\/music\/popcast-interview-audrey-hobert-whos-the-clown.html?emc=edit_nn_20260921&nl=the-morning&segment_id=226815",
    "parsed_content": "PopcastIs Audrey Hobert the Most Honest Voice in Pop?PopcastIs Audrey Hobert the Most Honest Voice in Pop?Credit...Supported bySKIP ADVERTISEMENTShare full articleBy Jon Caramanica and Joe CoscarelliVisuals by Caroline TompkinsSept. 18, 2026See more of our coverage in your search results.Encuentra m\u00e1s de nuestra cobertura en los resultados de b\u00fasqueda. Add The New York Times on GoogleAgrega The New York Times en Google VideoHow Audrey Hobert Went From Rookie Screenwriter to Your Pop BFFWatch the full \u201cPopcast\u201d conversation with Audrey Hobert here. Edited excerpts from the interview are below.CreditCredit...Caroline Tompkins for The New York TimesIn the year since the pop singer-songwriter Audrey Hobert released her debut album, \u201cWho\u2019s the Clown?\u201d she has put herself at the mercy of modern momentum.Amid near-constant touring to increasingly frantic and packed crowds, Hobert, 27, watched as her music and its resulting memes began to make her the main character she has always been in her head. These moments of sudden virality have been both encouraging and skeptical: A video of her performance at Lollapalooza in July showed tens of thousands of fans screaming her songs back at her, a breakout moment, while her idiosyncratic NPR Tiny Desk Concert last month was received, by some, with head scratching.\u201cI\u2019m very interested in my perspective,\u201d Hobert, equally earnest and wry, said in a new interview on \u201cPopcast,\u201d The New York Times\u2019s culture chat show.With just 12 winningly eccentric solo songs to her name, she is at once an unlikely pop phenom and also an obvious creative-industry darling, having grown up in Los Angeles as the daughter of a veteran television writer, best friend to Gracie Abrams and sister of another emerging singer, Malcolm Todd (also well on his way).AdvertisementSKIP ADVERTISEMENTHobert, an aspiring screenwriter herself at one point, only turned to music as a young adult, after her bonding sessions with Abrams became hits. That beginner\u2019s luck inspired Hobert to bring her punchy, joke writer\u2019s perspective to pop songs of her own, with the results sounding something like \u201cTeenage Dirtbag\u201d via Taylor Swift. Hobert\u2019s single \u201cSue Me\u201d has even climbed onto the Billboard singles chart, reaching a new peak of No. 57 this week, nearly 17 months after its release.ImageAfter releasing her album \u201cWho\u2019s the Clown?\u201d in 2025 and staging breakout performances, Audrey Hobert\u2019s grass roots support is turning into commercial success.\u201cThe whole music of it all felt like wind blowing me in this direction \u2014 I\u2019d be a fool to not go with the wind,\u201d Hobert said.Yet the sharp upturn in her success, and the responsibilities that come with it, have meant that she has yet to spend much time working on the follow-up to \u201cWho\u2019s the Clown?\u201d\u201cI miss doing it,\u201d Hobert said of writing songs. \u201cBut because I haven\u2019t written songs for most of my life, I don\u2019t process my emotions through songwriting. It\u2019s work \u2014 and not like derogatory \u2014 but it\u2019s work. And it is self-expression, but I feel more like a book writer sometimes. I\u2019m writing a story.\u201d (She added, \u201cI\u2019d rather have fun out on the road, or watch TV, honestly.\u201d)AdvertisementSKIP ADVERTISEMENTNevertheless, she has no anxiety that the words will come. \u201cLife has been crazy aside from all this stuff,\u201d Hobert said, and she is eager to return to her continuing memoir in song. \u201cI like being myself. So whatever happens, I hope it comes out of me quick.\u201dIn conversation with Jon Caramanica and Joe Coscarelli, Hobert spoke about tag-teaming pop success with Abrams, songwriting as exaggerated autobiography and the crucial difference between being awkward and being weird.How Audrey Hobert Went From Rookie Screenwriter to Your Pop BFFListen to the full conversation.Listen \u00b7 1 hr 6 minCOSCARELLI For a lot of pop artists, the release of their album is the climax, but you\u2019ve had a more old-fashioned rise, where you play a lot of shows, the grass roots support is building both IRL and online, and then it takes off commercially. When did you know that you were going to have this particular arc?ImageHOBERT I didn\u2019t feel like I ever had any predictions, but I always believed in the music and I just was like, I want the ears of the world, I want people to hear this. It just goes to show what hard work can do. AdvertisementSKIP ADVERTISEMENTCOSCARELLI When did you feel it click?HOBERT I mean, everything feels like a little bit of a click, you know? I do a pretty good job of staying off the internet. But I did tap back in around Lollapalooza, because that was crazy. There were a lot of people there, and mostly it was that Kyle, my friend who\u2019s on tour taking videos and photos, took this banging video from behind me of the crowd, and I was like, I feel like I just got to post this. But I try to stay away from what people say, for a lot of reasons I could get into later.COSCARELLI Get into them now. What is the thing you\u2019re trying to avoid?HOBERT I just think the nature of this job is such that it\u2019s rooted in an obsession with yourself. It\u2019s the most self-obsessed job I\u2019ve ever had.JON CARAMANICA The writing and the performing?Image\u201cIt\u2019s the most self-obsessed job I\u2019ve ever had,\u201d Hobert said of her music career.HOBERT Just the building of it. What I\u2019ve noticed the internet does is, instead of me feeling negatively or positively affected by what people are saying about me, I find that I am thinking about myself more than I would in terms of perception. I\u2019m looking at my own profile through the eyes of anybody else, and then that makes you think about yourself in a weird lens.I think we\u2019re already concerned in real life by what people think of us, and I just don\u2019t want to think more of myself in that way. Because it\u2019s not like normal, oh, what does my crush think of me, what do my friends think? It\u2019s: What do strangers think of me as an artist? That seems like a huge question, and I don\u2019t need to be thinking about that on my walk at 2 p.m. on a Tuesday. I don\u2019t want to be operating at all from a place of, how am I being perceived? I don\u2019t like when people ask me, how would you describe your aesthetic? I\u2019m like, I\u2019m a human being. I don\u2019t have an aesthetic. So that\u2019s why I stay off.CARAMANICA Was there a particular thing that happened at the beginning of the arc where you were like, OK, this is toxic?AdvertisementSKIP ADVERTISEMENTHOBERT After \u201cSue Me\u201d came out, I had TikTok on my phone for a week and was just obsessed with what people were saying. I pulled up Photo Booth [the Apple camera app] and pressed play and said, \u201cI\u2019m removing myself from this. I\u2019m holding myself to this via Photo Booth, just for me.\u201d I go back and look sometimes to remind myself. The thing I\u2019ve been most worried about throughout this foray into a career is that I\u2019m going to change fundamentally. I want to have fun. It can\u2019t be too serious. I think that\u2019s the thing I\u2019m trying to preserve from who I was before all this.CARAMANICA But is it futile? Do you feel confident you\u2019ll be able to say that in two or three years?HOBERT I try to control everything all the time, and I had that realization recently. At the end of the day, I would have been changed regardless of whether this was the thing I was doing. You can\u2019t really hyper-control how you are. And worrying brings you nothing \u2014 stress kills you. I\u2019ve kind of just decided that as long as I\u2019m having fun, as long as I\u2019m present, as long as I\u2019m being nice to the people around me, then I can change. I\u2019m allowed to change.COSCARELLI You come at this from an interesting vantage in that your childhood best friend, Gracie Abrams \u2014 you were roommates as her career was taking off, you contributed to the writing of some of her songs, which pushed you into this pop spotlight. Most people who go on that path don\u2019t have somebody so close to them who was on a similar path, but slightly ahead of them. I imagine that was helpful.ImageHOBERT Well, she\u2019s the reason for the path. She\u2019s the entire reason. I had never written music before. I had known her forever. We were living together \u2014 the pulse of our friendship was rooted in creativity. And it really just happened one day. I wasn\u2019t super aware of what was going on as it was happening. I\u2019ve always been so fascinated by what she did, and then I got to go along with her I wasn\u2019t thinking, wow, I\u2019m good. I was thinking, oh my God, I\u2019m having so much fun with her.CARAMANICA But you grabbed that by the reins.HOBERT I did. And I think I can attribute that to the age it happened to me. I was 24, 25, I had worked a few different jobs, and I discovered I had a talent, and I thought, I\u2019d be a fool not to go for this. I had impostor syndrome when I worked at a restaurant, I had impostor syndrome when I was a [production assistant] on a CBS show. And I did not have impostor syndrome on my first day as a session songwriter.AdvertisementSKIP ADVERTISEMENTCOSCARELLI You graduated from college aspiring to work as a television writer.HOBERT Yeah, and I did, for two seasons.COSCARELLI It\u2019s what your father does. You got a job on a Nickelodeon show. While you were doing that, were you thinking, this is my talent, I\u2019m on this path, nothing can blow me off it? Or was the songwriting already creeping in?Image\u201cI\u2019ve kind of just decided that as long as I\u2019m having fun, as long as I\u2019m present, as long as I\u2019m being nice to the people around me, then I can change. I\u2019m allowed to change.\u201dHOBERT I went to college for screenwriting. From high school I knew that\u2019s what I wanted to be. I loved it, I liked the community of it, a room full of people. There were some things about it that I was like, that does not jibe with who I am. There\u2019s a competitiveness in terms of pitching jokes and story lines, and I was so young, and everyone around me was more seasoned. I figured sometimes I\u2019m just going to sit here, and if I really think of something, I\u2019ll say it, but I want to watch everybody. But the thing I always felt that I wanted to write autobiographically, and you can\u2019t really write autobiographically for a Nickelodeon show.COSCARELLI I think it\u2019s very clear that what you were doing as a television writer is present in your songs. A lot of them are story songs \u2014 I think of something like \u201cSex and the City.\u201d There\u2019s a real arc to it, there\u2019s a structure. It feels like a sketch, almost, and you often act out these scenarios in the music videos that match. You\u2019re bringing a very writerly touch to pop songwriting.Do you feel like you created an avatar for yourself, \u00e0 la Tina Fey and Liz Lemon, or Lena Dunham and Hannah Horvath? Is the Audrey Hobert character on \u201cWho\u2019s the Clown?\u201d a version of yourself that\u2019s exaggerated?AdvertisementSKIP ADVERTISEMENTHOBERT Definitely. That\u2019s more interesting to write, for me. I didn\u2019t really feel that way when I was writing it, but now that it\u2019s been received, and the buzzwords people throw at me \u2014\u2014COSCARELLI Like what?HOBERT I don\u2019t even want to say. Awkward. I don\u2019t feel like a very awkward person. I\u2019m fine with weird, because there have been times, especially as a young person, where I\u2019ve perhaps felt weird. I\u2019ve always felt very socially aware and smart, but maybe my interests leaned more toward weird. Maybe my sense of clothing: weird. But what is weird? I think everybody is. And normal people scare me.The perception of the work \u2014 which I\u2019m so blessed it has been perceived at all \u2014 has made me go, OK, maybe I was exaggerating a little bit, but it\u2019s really just to make a point. At the time of writing the album I was very obsessed with my songs being short, being blunt, catchy. You have to pack a punch, but I also wanted to say as much as I possibly could. I would think lowly of myself as a writer in the moment if I didn\u2019t feel like I was saying a lot. Sometimes I wish I could be more evasive.ImageCOSCARELLI Leave some mystery?HOBERT Oh, that is the thing: I\u2019ve never, one day in my life, felt mysterious, and I wish I were \u2014 especially in high school, I\u2019d look at these mysterious people around me, because I went to a big public school, and I was like, God, I would do anything to be seen as mysterious. But I just am not.COSCARELLI I feel like you have a lot of jokes you want to get off in a song. One of the cool things, structurally in your music, is that you don\u2019t often sing a hook the same way twice \u2014 you alternate lyrics in \u201cThirst Trap,\u201d \u201cSue Me,\u201d \u201cSilver Jubilee.\u201d Where did you pick up that trick, and why is it important to you? Going back to your television roots, I find it works as a plot pusher; it moves the song forward.AdvertisementSKIP ADVERTISEMENTHOBERT When I was writing, I wanted to keep people on their toes, keep them interested. I feel it\u2019ll be more impactful the second and third time if I give it new meaning. I was always very concerned with catchiness, and proving myself as a writer was equally important to me.CARAMANICA I\u2019m also curious how you think about line breaks: A lot of times your rhyme hits two syllables into the second line. Are there people you\u2019ve looked to and thought, OK, they\u2019re doing it in an unusual way \u2014 maybe that means I can, too?HOBERT I think of someone like SZA. But also the thing that was so amazing about writing songs for the first time this way, on this album, was that it was complete self-expression. Those line breaks \u2014 singing through, rhyming \u2014 it came straight from my soul, gift from God, through me, out to the rest of the world. You\u2019re welcome. It\u2019s like being possessed \u2014 that\u2019s what songwriting feels like, and it\u2019s awesome.Image\u201cI\u2019m fine with weird, because there have been times, especially as a young person, where I\u2019ve perhaps felt weird. I\u2019ve always felt very socially aware and smart.\u201dCreditsPopcast is hosted by Jon Caramanica and Joe Coscarelli and produced by Sophie Erickson, Kate LoPresti and Felice Leon. This episode was filmed by Zebediah Smith, Alex Gallitano and Mark Zemel. It was edited by Zemel with help from Rebecca Blandon. Our theme music is by Elisheba Ittoop. Nick Pitman is our audio engineer and Amanda Webster is our photo editor. Brooke Minters is our executive producer. Header video cinematography is by Avery Munson Clark.Special thanks to Sarah Bonn, Dahlia Haddad, Mike Cordero, Nicole Huber, Aaron Byrd, Carl Mazurek, Zach Caldwell, Maddy Masiello, Brad Kimbrough, Craig Hettich, Andrew Wilcox, David Malitz, Elena Bergeron, Sia Michel, Nina Lassam and Sam Dolnick.AdvertisementSKIP ADVERTISEMENT",
    "published_at": "2026-09-18T09:03:13+00:00",
    "author_name": "Jon Caramanica, Joe Coscarelli",
    "site_name": "The New York Times",
    "section": "Music",
    "publisher": "The New York Times Company",
    "ai_headline": "Is Audrey Hobert the Most Honest Voice in Pop?",
    "ai_simplified_title": "Audrey Hobert Discusses Pop Success and Songwriting on Popcast",
    "ai_excerpt": "Pop singer-songwriter Audrey Hobert reflects on her rapid rise to fame since her debut album \"Who's the Clown?\" and her unique approach to songwriting. She discusses navigating sudden virality, the challenges of perception in the music industry, and her creative process.",
    "ai_subject_tags": [
        "Pop Music",
        "Audrey Hobert",
        "Songwriting",
        "Music Industry",
        "Popcast",
        "Interviews",
        "Celebrity Culture"
    ],
    "ai_context_type": "Analysis",
    "ai_context_details": {
        "tone": "informative",
        "perspective": "neutral",
        "audience": "general",
        "credibility_indicators": [
            "expert_quotes",
            "interview"
        ]
    },
    "ai_source_vector": null,
    "ai_confidence_score": 0.9999999999999999,
    "ai_extraction_metadata": {
        "extracted_at": "2026-10-02T21:05:58.388633Z",
        "ai_model": "gemini-2.5-flash",
        "extraction_method": "automated",
        "content_length": 14739,
        "metadata_prompt_body_chars": 14739,
        "metadata_prompt_truncated": false,
        "url": "https:\/\/nytimes.com\/2026\/09\/18\/arts\/music\/popcast-interview-audrey-hobert-whos-the-clown.html",
        "existing_metadata": {
            "author_name": null,
            "published_at": null,
            "domain_name": "nytimes.com",
            "site_name": null,
            "section": null,
            "publisher": null
        },
        "openai_refusal_gemini_fallback": false
    }
}

{
    "extracted_at": "2026-10-02T21:05:58.388633Z",
    "ai_model": "gemini-2.5-flash",
    "extraction_method": "automated",
    "content_length": 14739,
    "metadata_prompt_body_chars": 14739,
    "metadata_prompt_truncated": false,
    "url": "https:\/\/nytimes.com\/2026\/09\/18\/arts\/music\/popcast-interview-audrey-hobert-whos-the-clown.html",
    "existing_metadata": {
        "author_name": null,
        "published_at": null,
        "domain_name": "nytimes.com",
        "site_name": null,
        "section": null,
        "publisher": null
    },
    "openai_refusal_gemini_fallback": false
}