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    "original_url": "https:\/\/www.nytimes.com\/2026\/09\/23\/world\/canada\/mark-carney-canada-us-trump-tariffs.html?emc=edit_nn_20260924&nl=the-morning&segment_id=226986",
    "parsed_content": "U.S.-Canada Trade WarCarney InterviewEffect of Trump\u2019s DiplomacyBan on Canadian ImportsCanada\u2019s Retaliatory TariffsTalks CollapsedCarney Lays Out His Vision for Breaking Canada\u2019s Reliance on U.S.In a wide-ranging interview, Prime Minister Mark Carney described a tense, evolving relationship with President Trump.Prime Minister Mark Carney of Canada during an interview with The New York Times on Wednesday.Credit...Daniel Berehulak\/The New York TimesSkip to contentSkip to site indexSearch & Section NavigationSection NavigationAccountAccountGoHome U.S.SECTIONSU.S.PoliticsNew YorkCaliforniaEducationHealthObituariesScienceClimateWeatherSportsBusinessTechThe UpshotThe MagazineTOP STORIESDonald TrumpSupreme CourtCongressImmigrationAbortionLatest PollsNEWSLETTERSThe MorningMake sense of the day\u2019s news and ideas.The EveningCatch up on big news, and wind down to end your day.See all newslettersPODCASTSThe DailyThe biggest stories of our time, in 20 minutes a day.See all podcastsWorldSECTIONSWorldAfricaAmericasAsiaAustraliaCanadaEuropeMiddle EastScienceClimateWeatherHealthObituariesTOP STORIESMiddle East CrisisRussia-Ukraine WarChina International RelationsThe Global ProfileLeer en Espa\u00f1olNEWSLETTERSThe WorldA guide to understanding the news, made for readers around the globe.Your Places: Global UpdateThe latest news for any part of the world you select.Canada LetterBackstories and analysis from our Canadian correspondents.See all newslettersBusinessSECTIONSBusinessTechEconomyMediaFinance and MarketsDealBookPersonal TechEnergy TransitionYour MoneyTOP STORIESU.S. EconomyStock MarketArtificial IntelligenceNEWSLETTERSDealBookThe most crucial business and policy news you need to know.On TechOur best tech reporting from the week.See all newslettersPODCASTSHard ForkOur tech journalists help you make sense of the rapidly changing tech world.See all podcastsArtsSECTIONSToday's ArtsBook ReviewBest SellersDanceMoviesMusicTelevisionTheaterPop CultureT MagazineVisual ArtsRECOMMENDATIONS100 Best Movies of the 21st CenturyCritic\u2019s PicksWhat to ReadWhat to WatchWhat to Listen To5 Minutes to Make You Love MusicNEWSLETTERSBooksReviews, news and features to help you find your next read.WatchingStreaming TV and movie recommendations.See all newslettersPODCASTSBook ReviewThe podcast that takes you inside the literary world.PopcastPop music news, new songs and albums, and artists of note.See all podcastsLifestyleSECTIONSAll LifestyleWellTravelStyleReal EstateFoodLoveYour MoneyPersonal TechT MagazineCOLUMNS36 HoursAsk WellThe HuntModern LoveWhere to EatVowsSocial Q\u2019sThe EthicistAsk the TherapistNEWSLETTERSThe WeekenderUnwind with stories about culture and the way we live.WellEssential news and guidance to live your healthiest life.See all newslettersPODCASTSModern LoveThe complicated love lives of real people.See all podcastsOpinionSECTIONSOpinionGuest EssaysEditorialsOp-DocsVideosLettersTOPICSPoliticsWorldBusinessTechClimateHealthCultureCOLUMNISTSJamelle BouieMaureen DowdDavid FrenchThomas L. 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Win ProjectionsNEWSLETTERSThe PulseDelivering the top stories in sports, Sunday to Friday.See all newslettersPLAYConnections: Sports Edition Connections: Soccer Edition Connections Coach U.S.InternationalCanadaEspa\u00f1ol\u4e2d\u6587Carney Lays Out His Vision for Breaking Canada\u2019s Reliance on U.S.In a wide-ranging interview, Prime Minister Mark Carney described a tense, evolving relationship with President Trump.Prime Minister Mark Carney of Canada during an interview with The New York Times on Wednesday.Credit...Daniel Berehulak\/The New York TimesSupported bySKIP ADVERTISEMENTListen \u00b7 8:53 min Share full articleBy Matina Stevis-GridneffDavid E. SangerTyler Pager and Colby SmithMatina Stevis-Gridneff is Canada bureau chief. David E. Sanger and Tyler Pager cover the White House. Colby Smith covers the Federal Reserve. They were among Times journalists who interviewed Mr. Carney in New York.Published Sept. 23, 2026Updated Sept. 24, 2026, 8:30 a.m. ETPrime Minister Mark Carney of Canada said that he had prepared over the past year for the \u201cextreme tail risk\u201d that President Trump might order military action against Canada, but disclosed that the two men have spoken \u201cfrequently,\u201d even since trade talks collapsed last month, describing a tense, evolving relationship.In a wide-ranging interview with The New York Times at its headquarters in Midtown Manhattan on Wednesday, Mr. Carney described in meticulous detail how he was systematically reducing Canada\u2019s reliance on the United States for key technology \u2014 from space satellites to fighter jets \u2014 in an effort to make his country far less vulnerable to American threats. He outlined a plan to diversify Canada\u2019s relationships and suppliers, and said that even with a different future president \u201cwe will be a better partner for the U.S. because of what we are doing.\u201dHe talked about reducing reliance on Starlink, Elon Musk\u2019s satellite systems; considering alternatives to buying F-35 fighter jets; and a focus on deepening economic \u2014 though not defense \u2014 relationships with China. Mr. Trump\u2019s exploitation of Canadian dependency on American products had taught the country a bitter lesson: \u201cThere\u2019s certain things, once you\u2019ve seen them, you can\u2019t unsee them.\u201dWhen pressed on whether he took Mr. Trump\u2019s threats to make Canada a 51st state seriously, Mr. Carney suggested that he had carefully examined the possibility of U.S.-led military action, but declined to discuss in detail what that involved.AdvertisementSKIP ADVERTISEMENT\u201cI think you have a responsibility in these roles to look at extreme tail risk,\u201d said Mr. Carney, a former central banker for Britain and Canada who approaches the world by meticulously assessing worst-case scenarios and drafting responses. He added: \u201cThat\u2019s just risk management. That\u2019s not a base case, but it would be irresponsible not to\u201d prepare.ImageMr. Carney described a course of action to lessen Canada\u2019s reliance on the United States.Credit...Daniel Berehulak\/The New York TimesMr. Carney spoke for an hour on a variety of challenges, including artificial intelligence, trade, and Canada\u2019s role as a \u201cmiddle power.\u201dWant to stay updated on what\u2019s happening in Canada? Sign up for Your Places: Global Update, and we\u2019ll send our latest coverage to your inbox.Over the past year, he has emerged as the most prominent global leader to take on Mr. Trump. Along the way, he has also begun to define a path toward reducing dependence on a superpower neighbor that he has come to regard as predatory. Around the world, other leaders have looked to him as a model for dealing with an erratic, unreliable ally \u2014 one that remains, in Canada\u2019s case, critical to national defense and economic survival.But few of those leaders have articulated their interests as clearly as Mr. Carney, who used a speech at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, earlier this year to describe a strategy for dealing with the rupture. \u201cEither you retreat wholly into yourself or you diversify,\u201d he said then, making the choice he faces stark.AdvertisementSKIP ADVERTISEMENTStill, Mr. Carney said he speaks \u201cfrequently\u201d to Mr. Trump and that they had spoken \u201ca number of times\u201d since trade talks broke down last month.\u201cFrom my perspective, we have a good relationship in the sense of we can pick up the phone and talk to each other about issues,\u201d he said on Wednesday. \u201cHe\u2019s direct. I\u2019m direct in terms of where positions are. It\u2019s much more efficient that way, and so you know that exists and that will continue to exist.\u201dThe Canadian leader made the case, too, that in many ways, what\u2019s good for Canada is also good for the United States because of their decades-long integration that has created stability and prosperity. Mr. Carney gave the example of the automobile industry, which is highly integrated across the U.S.-Canada border but has been at the center of the Trump administration\u2019s tariff policy against Canada.\u201cMy entire life, and I\u2019m 61, we\u2019ve had an integrated auto sector,\u201d Mr. Carney said, adding that breaking that deep connection to repatriate all auto production to the United States is not good policy. \u201cWe think it doesn\u2019t make sense,\u201d he said.Mr. Carney said that a path remains to resuming negotiations with the United States that would revive the trade agreement that fell apart in late August. Since then, the two countries have imposed rounds of tariffs on each other, and rhetoric has been menacing, particularly from Mr. Trump, who has repeatedly called Canada\u2019s leadership \u201cnasty.\u201d But Mr. Carney brushed that off.AdvertisementSKIP ADVERTISEMENT\u201cIs there a mutually beneficial trade deal between Canada and the U.S.? Absolutely, absolutely there is one,\u201d Mr. Carney said. He said that he was interested, for example, in adding potash to the talks. Canada provides almost 90 percent of all potash, the key ingredient for fertilizer, imported into the United States. Earlier this week, Mr. Trump said that he wanted to replace Canada\u2019s supply with potash from Belarus \u2014 an authoritarian state aligned with Russia that is under U.S. sanctions for its role in the war in Ukraine.Mr. Carney said that Canada, the United States and potentially also Mexico could become \u201cfertilizer independent\u201d by securing special access to Canada\u2019s potash, the world\u2019s largest reserve. He added that the Canadian option was clearly better than buying potash elsewhere that would then need to be transported through the Black Sea or the Strait of Hormuz.\u201cI think this is a doable component of the deal, and there are other examples that exist, and we\u2019re ready to work toward,\u201d he added.At home, Mr. Carney has come under pressure to use Canada\u2019s most sensitive and important export to the United States \u2014 energy \u2014 as leverage in the trade war. Some 60 percent of all oil imports into the United States come from Canada, while the country is also a major source of electricity for American households and industry.Mr. Carney said he was very reluctant to limit, tariff or otherwise curb those exports to the United States.AdvertisementSKIP ADVERTISEMENT\u201cIf you\u2019re a reliable partner and you supply energy or food to somebody it keeps running, it\u2019s a very, very, very high threshold to change that,\u201d he said. \u201cNever say never, but it starts from a position of, we need to be a reliable supplier in all cases.\u201dImageMr. Carney at the United Nations in New York this week.Credit...Dave Sanders for The New York TimesAlthough optimistic that efforts to strike a trade deal could be revived, Mr. Carney said he was cleareyed about areas where Canada needs to reduce its dependence on the United States.\u201cStarlink, we will diversify away from, no question,\u201d Mr. Carney said, referring to the American-based cluster of communication satellites, run by Elon Musk\u2019s SpaceX, that have revolutionized the industry. He alluded to past disruptions and to Mr. Musk\u2019s reluctance to provide Ukraine with data that would enable it to target parts of Crimea and Russia.He acknowledged that other satellite network options are still less capable and resilient, but added that \u201cfrom a defense perspective, and certainly pooled with other partners, Europeans, Koreans potentially, you get to scale and you cut that dependency.\u201dAdvertisementSKIP ADVERTISEMENTThe Canadian government is reviewing a planned order of 88 Lockheed Martin F-35 jets and is also considering a counterproposal to acquire Swedish Saab Gripen fighters. Mr. Carney did not specify where he was on that decision, but he did say that he wanted to use Canada\u2019s newly bolstered defense budget to order aircraft that perform well in the Arctic.\u201cIt is a real decision because of differing capabilities, because of strategic dependencies, and because of the economic return,\u201d he said.Mr. Carney on Wednesday also reiterated his long-held view that a global financial system wholly dependent on the U.S. dollar was unsustainable. A move to a multipolar system in which there are several reserve currencies would \u201cprovide more flexibility,\u201d he said.He acknowledged that there was a \u201cdirectional shift\u201d underway in which countries were re-evaluating their exposure to the U.S. dollar, but he conceded that any pivot would be limited until there was \u201cproper liberalization\u201d of China\u2019s currency and financial system. Still, Mr. Carney said he expected the demand for U.S. dollar alternatives to grow, in part because of the Trump administration\u2019s decision to rewire trading relations and use integration as \u201cleverage.\u201d\u201cIt\u2019s the \u2018fool me once, fool me twice\u2019 point,\u201d Mr. Carney said. \u201cOnce you see that, then you start to think, how do I diversify away?\u201dAdvertisementSKIP ADVERTISEMENT",
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